I am using the Throttle position for load sensing...

Tuesday, 29-Feb-2000 19:54:14

It is much easier to set up rather than the Manifold absolute Pressure for load sensing like what you are running. Now my Throttle position settings are

right about what you are running, don't listen to the sds guys they have never tuned a Air cooled Vw motor, they are different than other motors. I ramp

my throttle position settings up quite quickly I start at like 40 and go up to 60 or so in the first couple of positions then steadily increase it. I really

can'y help you with the map numbers. I really can't give you any rpm fuel numbers either unless you are using the same injectors as me. I run a 437cc

injector. The way I got my car in tune was to buy an air fuel guage and tune it like that you have to have an air fuel guage to get it right. So you can set it

at 14.7 to 1 at idle and around 13 to 1 when you are under full throttle. This will also tell you if you are rich or lean for each vacum number when

programming the map values. Once you get an air fuel gauge then it is a real breeze to program. Here is a tip be sure that you SHUT OFF the

acceleration enrichment when you tune it will throw you way off if you don't. I tune it so that I am a little richer than 14.7 to 1 through the whole rpm

band once that is correct then I add the low and high rpm enrichment so that under full throttle the guage is at 13 to 1. This is about all I can offer to ya I

am not that familiar with the map sensor tuning, sorry. Where are you located at I am in Pa but I am on my way to San Diego tommorow. If you by any

of these places I can probably help you out. Later Chuck

Chuck

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'cuz with large overlap cams that the Vw can use (and the Veeaters can't) doesn't give enuff signal and you get the problems you are encountering. I

know, I have the Haltech, but once you get past the manufacturer's hype and start using common terminalogy for the various givens, They all operate

pretty much the same. Its like slicing bread, how many ways are there ? Physics stays the same no matter whose brain is being used. All systems are

timing in milliseconds the length of the injector squirt. With Haltech's recent upgrade of its user interface, you now can "see" the 3D map display. If we

were to compare our injector's rated flow @ what ever pressure, we would see that the fully programable systems are doing the same thing. We could

compare our fuel maps with just a bit of intepretation. Each "slice" of the map, eg at each rpm set point, would be comparable. What I'm getting at is if

i were to data load what my values are, you could look at print out and tune your system to give the same fuel curve. Does this make sense?

Also, back to the sensing part, It was determined that if you use 2 vacumn ports off of your manifolds (like #s 2 and 4 tee'd together) you will get a

more consistent signal to your fuel pressure regulator. Also on the coolant temp sensor, I've been running it in the cooling air flow instead of the oil,

this seems to be a bit better on street driving. When you park the car at a store and come back out in say 20 mimutes, the oil hasn't really gone down in

temp but the heads have cooled quite a bit.

A few of us are discussing a web site or ? where us fuelie people could put our ideas and experiences together so others can benefit from our

knowledge. Are you guys interested? All input would be helpful.

Tom H.

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Tom you are correct all systems are the same, it just depends what features you wasnt with the system.....for example: Motec(I spent 10 hours at a

Motec seminar last year)allows you to record 180 different pieces of data 10 times a second for 45 minutes(approx depending on system) you can then

graph this info save it compare it, squeeze it crunch it, massage it etc. this is a GREAT system if you want data acquisition. Haltech is a system similar

to Motec but does not have the depth of the features. Motec and haltech also let you have many fuel maps/ boost maps etc and change them. they are

basically data files that are run so they are easy to change. SDS does not have this ability, you have one set of maps and if you want to try anything

different you must make changes to this map,,,which means you must take good notes to remember where you started....but with the Haltech and the

Motec systems you must have a laptop, with the SDS you have a hand help programmer. If any one has any questions on any of the other systems let me

know I will try and help you out...

fuel pressure regulator.......I do not use a vacuum adjustible one as I am not running a turbo....I did not see the need as the pressure change would be

minute in an aspirated configuration....

Tom I would love to see your fuel curve as the the shape would be beneficial to me....if you could forward it to me I would appreciate it!

webpage..good idea! there is a gentleman out of Arizona who is extremely sharp on this named Tim VanSetten, he makes his own system and he is a

great resource...let me know what you guys come up with!

Peace................BartG

BartG

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Mark, the address for Miller's fuel injection site is www.millerfi.com.

There is a lot of material to read at this page, so you better bring along a few cold ones.

Miller makes mention of a new aluminum block being cast and machined by a new supplier. I contacted these people about the blocks. They are not ready yet, but should be soon. They are shooting for the $1500 range.

Have fun,

RobTynmann

Rob Tynmann

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I have Bosch K-Jetronic on my 1835, check it out on http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11101119/ Svwerk-Tech

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Re: Well I guess I called that one. Bogus dyno comparisons.

Saturday, 25-Mar-2000 00:22:56

209.179.140.96 writes:

These guys are really smart when it comes to the technical stuff but when it comes to the basics it seems they have a little more to learn. I`m no genius but I think dynoing a 2.4 liter motor with 32mm venturies is kind of messed up. I mean, 40 dellortos come with 34s in them!! 48 IDAs came stock with 37mm chokes so they would work on 1600 cc VW motors. Apparently knowone told Weber that you could make a VW bigger. Why would anyone go smaller unless they wanted LESS power. Even if they wanted a flat torque curve they could have run at least the stock venturies. Then the IDA motor would have made more HP too,and not just more torque as it did with the 32 vents. Which doesn`t speak well of their FI system. I`ve seen a few CSI convertions before and they do work well on low HP setups. But if you want to make the power that alot of the guys on this forum are making then I`m not sure if its cost effective.

And theres the obvious problem of not looking very cool and having to throw your decklid away. :-)

Mark H

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Re: Re: Your right , Mark. the stock ones are limited.....

Saturday, 25-Mar-2000 12:15:59

12.73.120.187 writes:

And IF the dyno comparisons were fair so an Uneducated person could make real decisions based on real facts, What do you think they would buy? A very misleading marketing ploy that reflects badly on them IHMO. I wish I had fancy dyno charts to put up on my site, but I am working on putting a couple of fuel maps on so people can see what one looks like.

Until the "tuners" can get into the brain and re-program the thing, there is not enough variable parameters to fully support a BIG engine, especially one that can breathe and rev. How ya gonna support 7,000rpm 2213ccs thru a stock air flow sensor? Several people have said as much here on CLF over the last 6 months to support this. There is a market for these stock conversions but I'm not one of the "targets".

Tom H.

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VW Carbs

Saturday, 11-Nov-00 17:25:41

63.14.211.152 writes:

Does weber even make the 48ida anymore. I was wondering why i dont see them advertised. It is unfortunate that carbs that make serious

VW power are so costly. I cant believe that the only market for the 48ida is VW. Dont the nostalgia V8 guys still run them. Why are they so

much. Carburation for a VW can run up to 1500 bucks. Thats about three or four 4 barrel holleys. I know that speed costs but this is a lot

of dough.

matt c

<<Back | <Reload> | Forward>>

Message thread:

VW Carbs (matt c) (11-Nov-00 17:25:41)

Re: Weber doesn't make them anymore, too small of a market, I guess. You can find them for $800-$1000 used, if you shop around,,, still a lot, I know. Berg sells a superior 58mm

version, @ $1900 /pair, JayCee sells 62mm Terminators for around the same. Unfortunately, if you want to make good power at higher rpms, IDAs are the way to go. And they look

sooo coool!! (n/t) (Tom Simon) (11-Nov-00 19:19:57)

Build yourself a fuel injection setup. It costs less than 48's and makes far more power. (n/t) (11-Nov-00 20:10:33)

some people like the old school style. I got my 48's at swap meet for cheap (n/t) (12-Nov-00 03:37:37)

Where might I find a GOOD fuel injection setup that cost as much as, or less than a set of IDA's? I was under the impression that a GOOD setup would run around a few

thousand. Is that number with ALL of the parts needed, or does that only give you the general essentials, and you supply everything else??? (n/t) (Jimmie J.) (12-Nov-00 19:41:33)

Re: Where might I find a GOOD fuel injection setup (Steve Arndt) (13-Nov-00 10:57:51)

More. . . (Steve Arndt) (13-Nov-00 11:01:29)

BERG Carbs (clyde berg) (13-Nov-00 12:22:38)

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Re: Where might I find a GOOD fuel injection setup

Monday, 13-Nov-00 10:57:51

207.70.63.165 writes:

http://netnow.micron.net/~motodad/vw/

click EFI

You can purchase CB 48mm throttle bodies in an IDF style, TWM in up to 52mm in IDF style, or TWM IDA style in up to 55mm. All bolt

to normal manifolds. CB units are about 260 a piece. TWM are about 360$ a piece. That is only 700$ for the honker sized IDAs.

Add manifolds, linkage, and air filters. That puts you at 800 or 900 for a super sweet setup. You could be complete for $700 if you went

with CB throttle bodies, and their filters and linkage. Of course if you have linkage and manifolds, etc. already then just $550 for the CB

throttle bodies.

Next you need an ECU. SDS EFI sells a nice fuel only setup for about $700. You can shop around and also find the Haltech F9A for about

$800. The Haltech E6K which is uber trick is only $1,100 if you get a good deal (keep in mind with this setup you can subtract the cost of

an MSD dizzy, 6A, etc. It is a real sweet ignition setup). Go with a simple fuel only setup if you are new to this.

Next hit the Scrap yards and buy a regulator, pump, injectors, fittings, relays, etc. If you have them already then this is free.

So throttle bodies, ECU, and the little things. Can be built anywhere from a grand for a complete system up to 30 grand. It depends on what

you want.

Steve Arndt

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More. . .

Monday, 13-Nov-00 11:01:29

207.70.63.165 writes:

I shopped around and bought a Haltech F3 TPS fuel only setup for $250 new in box.

I'll add 48mm CB throttle bodies, their TPS, and fuel rails. These cost $625 total.

The rest of the parts I have used. Of course the laptop I already have to tune the Haltech (I also have the O2 sensor already).

250 for my ecu

625 for throttle bodies

small stuff free

Steve Arndt

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BERG Carbs

Monday, 13-Nov-00 12:22:38

63.28.120.208 writes:

We make our carbs in any size between 48 and 58 we stock 48, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58 normally it takes 3-5 days to assemble once an order is

taken.

clyde berg